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Christian Education Symposium Learning Styles Question/Answer Forum December 2001

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The following is an archive of the question and answer message board on which Mariaemma Willis, M.S., and Victoria Kindle Hodson, M.A., were our guests. You can learn more about the authors and their work using the following links:

Web site: http://www.learningsuccesscoach.com/
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January 2002: Mariaemma and Victoria have graciously offered to host our Learning Styles Message Board. Please feel free to visit and post your questions there.

My dear Roger...our noisemaker and the one most easily distracted...
Posted By: Mary Leggewie

The way I most successfully school him is by having the other 2 kids in another part of the house. He goes crazy when anyone is in the room besides me. He can't handle noise of any kind and even notices when my computer makes a different sound!

Do you have any ideas that would enable me to have the other 2 kids in the same room when he's doing school? I do have another room nearby I could rearrange if you don't have any ideas. Right now the other 2 play while Roger works, but I'd much rather have everyone done with school by lunch. It's a pretty big room. I've thought of using a voting booth type cardboard divider so he can't even see his siblings!

By the way, Roger turns out to have a vision problem that is frequently misdiagnosed as ADD. He has problems with pursuits and saccades--which means he has to work really hard to read and do anything written, but he's doing very well with his work because he's determined and I have been limiting the distractions.

He's an auditory learner, no doubt...he wants me to read all his instructions out loud so he can hear them!

Thanks in advance!

Reply from Mariaemma:

Hi, could you give me a little more information - how old is Roger, is there anything at all that he can concentrate on when there is noise and others are around, have you given him the Learning Style Profile - if so, let me know his 2 highest Dispositions and the 3 Modalities he chose.

Meanwhile, here are a couple of ideas. If he is really an auditory learner, it might help to give him some of his work on tape - for instance, he can listen to books on tape for literature, social studies, etc. - probably best with earphones on. This way it blocks out other noise and the others in the room don't have to listen to it. If he is distracted visually as well, you could give him his own corner with a little rug or bean bag chair, with perhaps a cardboard carrel as you suggested. Or, if he likes to draw, he could draw while he listens and this might cut out other distractions for him. Other possibilities are to have him build with Legos or do other crafts type activities while he listens (depending on his interests).

Another thing you could try is to have music that is calming, such as Classical music, especially Baroque, again with headphones. Some students can really stay on task while listening to this music.

Let me know what you think so far. If you could answer the questions above, I could probably give you more ideas.

Reply from Mary Leggewie:

Whoops! He's 10, and I'm going to have him do the on-line profile tomorrow for school! He's the one I really want to try it out on. I've tried music with him...no way! He has to have absolute silence. And if he even THINKS someone is looking at him, it's all over!

I'll post again after we've scored him!

Mary

Reply from Victoria:

This is an interesting situation. It would be helpful to have more information: ages of your children, whether Roger has had his hearing tested, and whether younger siblings are performing at higher levels of skill development in reading and writing than Roger is. If you would be willing to give me this information, perhaps we can determine what the next step might be.

It seems that Roger is an auditory-verbal learner, if he wants to read his instructions out loud. An auditory-verbal learner needs to hear the sound of his own voice in order to make sense of what he is reading. He is likely to learn and remember best by talking things over, making presentations during which he explains how things work, and teaching others - anything that allows him to hear his own voice.

I'll be happy to talk with you more in light of the questions I've asked above.

Best wishes,
Victoria

Reply from Mariaemma:

Hooray for you - isn't it great being able to learn how you learn? The value of this lasts a lifetime!

Reply from Mary Leggewie:

YOOHOO ladies!!! Here's Roger update after his on-line portrait...

Roger is super sensitive. He was a real pain to get to take that test, but because I forced him to do the entire thing in one sitting (shame on me--I bribed him with no school!). The section with the choices to be made (least, most, alot) was very hard for him to do...he's a perfectionist and had a hard time understanding what the sentences meant, especially when some sentences were negative and others positive.

Roger's hearing has been tested--I was worried because he's so LOUD. His vision problem apparently is often diagnosed as ADD because kids with problems with tracking have behavior problems that come from frustration. I cringe to think where he he would be in a classroom setting! He often breaks down and cries at stuff that isn't that hard.

My neighbor, a special-ed teacher, tested him with a pretty weak test (short version of Woodcock Johnson, I think it was called) and he was above grade level on everything but math, and for math he was at grade level, even though he's in fourth grade doing 3rd grade Saxon Math. He tested 5th grade for reading and is eating up the Sugar Creek Gang books, but has to work at it with me holding the book and a place marker underneath each line. It's VERY difficult for him to follow from one line to the next without a place marker.

ANYWAY...Roger is almost 10, in 4th grade. I skipped Kindergarten with him and waited till he was about 7 to start 1st grade homeschooling. Siblings-almost 12 Yvette, who is on target or ahead for most subjects. Younger brother Daniel is almost 8 and is VERY bright. This doesn't seem to bother Roger, and I figure if Daniel catches up on math to Roger's level, I'll have one of the two of them use a different brand text book so it won't be obvious.

Disposition: "Invents" is his highest, and "thinks/creates" is his second highest.

Modality: Learns best when:
1. Talk to myself (verbal)
2. watch movies (picture)
3. touch, take apart, or put together (hands-on).

Hands on struck me as a bit odd...he loves Legos, but they do frustrate him. He has a LOW pain tolerance, and is very impatient, especially with himself. He is LOUD. Constantly fidgeting, has to make noise, has a great voice trumpet all day long (I enjoy it, but it drives the siblings crazy!). Lives to snowboard. He's easily frustrated. He seems to have intense concentration at times...when I have to ask him twice to do something or come to me, he'll yell "OKAY" and I make him say it again calmer.

I have tried Mozart--NO way...has to be absolute quiet for him to concentrate. He wants to do his math sheet alone unless he gets stuck. He's just like your book says...he doesn't get the instructions, but when I read them to him, or have him read them aloud to me, he "gets it!"

I put moved his desk to a corner facing a blank wall after he agreed it might help, but it's gotten cluttered little by little. Do you suggest a different setting?

He can't handle ANYTHING that is timed for speed.

Will I ever be able to have the other kids do school at the same time?

Thanks so much! Sorry so long, but I figured it might help to type up whatever I could think of!

Mary

Reply from Mariaemma:

Hi, Mary, thanks for the added information. What do you think about trying some of the things I suggested in the first post - listening to books on tape with earphones on, watching videos or CD Roms on computer with earphones on, and being in a corner where he can't see the others looking at him. Also, continue to encourage him to talk himself through things and to read out loud.

I assume he is getting vision therapy for the tracking problem. Using a marker is a great way to to stay on track. I am also wondering if he should be tested for Scotopic Sensitivity Syndrome - this is the light sensitivity that is cleared up with colored lenses - you might have heard of it. Often, when kids are affected by this and it is cleared up, other "behavioral" issues are cleared up as well.

Oh, and what about the drawing suggestion - does he like to draw? Would drawing and doodling help him stay on task?

Victoria might have more suggestions later.

Reply from Mary Leggewie:

Since I appear to have the same problem Roger has with tracking, my husband is the one who is doing home vision therapy with Roger. We did a few office visits, but the cost was sky high, so we did a training visit and are doing it on our own. I'm going to buy a couple books that have been recommended on home therapy. We really see an improvement because of it. I have heard about the colored markers (cellophane in a whole so he can read words with a colored background instead of white), and maybe I'll give it a try. He has been doing well as long as I hold the marker, so I hadn't tried anything else.

Yes, he doodles too! In fact, it's strange, but at bedtime reading, he actually seems to concentrate better if he's allowed to thumb through unrelated books while I'm reading aloud! Weird, but it works, and I tested him so many times asking him what I just said that I finally allow him to do that.

He loves TV and cd-roms (as long as they aren't timed), and we use a lot of ed videos.

I will encourage him more to talk to himself--it sure works for ME!

Thanks for the ideas. Gotta clean up this school room today and I'll make him an even more boring corner!

Mary

Reply from Victoria:

Hi Mary,

Thanks so much for the additional information! Mariaemma gave you some great tips. One thing that I would like to suggest is that every member of the family do the profiles and that you make a graph of all your scores. There is actually a graph in our book on page 291 just for this purpose. When children are consistently loud and sensitive to small things, it can be a clue that the they don't think that people are listening to them. Sometimes it is a sign that they don't see themselves as valued and acknowledged in a group.

By putting all the scores for your families learning dispositions on the same graph, you can show your son where some of you are similar and where you are different. The overall message can be that we are all different, and one way is not better than another. Perhaps this would set the tone for belonging and team effort that would allow all of you to work in the same room.

Just a thought. Let me know what you think.
Best wishes,
Victoria

Phonics/attention
Posted By: Jill

I struggle so much with my child paying attention. She is 5 yrs old and reading to her things that she hasn't picked to read are like pulling teeth. I have done the profile and visual was one of her strengths (in Modality). Creating is high in the Disposition section. By these can you tell me what I may do doing wrong. I currently am using Sonlight (lang arts, phonics, writing) and Math U See.

Thank you

Focusing ?
Posted By: Barbara C.

My dd (age 15) has always had problems focusing in on her work--it started in 1st grade! Now, 9 years later, she is still having problems.

Example: While watching a video on the Revolutionary War, she made the comment, "Do you ever wonder what they would think of our weapons today?" I told her to focus on the video. If I hadn't, she would have expounded on her thoughts and we would have had to rewind the video.

Another Example: When studying for a test, her mind drifts off to other things (her dog, a book she is reading, etc.) and studying just never seems to happen.

I've also noticed that if something she is working on is not interesting to her, she does poorly. We only did the first two modules in Apologia Physical Science. By the third one, she had decided that physical science was boring. We did Module 3 twice and she still didn't get it because she couldn't focus in on something uninteresting.

I would appreciate suggestions!

TIA!
Barbara C.

Reply from Mariaemma:

Hi, Barbara, your daughter sounds like she might be a Thinking/Creating and or Inventing learner, possibly high in visual picture and/or tactile kinesthethic modality. Her question about the weapons was not off track at all - this is precisely the way Thinking/Creating people learn best! They need to make connections, try out ideas, go with their flow of thought. Yes, the video needs to be stopped while that discussion goes on (or even journal writing or drawing or looking something up - giving her time to process, think, work out the thoughts and ideas). Yes, it might take longer, but this is how she will REALLY learn. Actually, the way she learns is not a problem, it's an asset - it's what makes our great scientists and inventors be able to create and come up with the wonderful things they come up with. Your daughter is in this category!

When your daughter studies, suggest that she stay active with the subject. She could make up a song about the thing she is learning, she could draw pictures, make charts, doodle - whatever will keep her engaged with the material. She could read things out loud and record herself, then play it back while she does exercises, rides her bike, etc.

Yes, your daughter will quickly lose interest in things that are boring to her. One way to approach this is to let her choose the topic (for example in science - she might prefer learning about animals or the planets). If it is critical that she work through the particular science program you mentioned then, again, show her how to make it interesting by having her do a project, drawing, watch videos about the subject, etc.

I think letting her take the Learning Style Profile would be very valuable (and you could take it, too - it's helpful to compare your style with hers to get a better understanding of how each of you thinks and learns - you could use the profiles in the book, Discover Your Child's Learning Style, or purchase and take it online at www.aselfportraitonline.com).

Your daughter needs to know how smart she is and what a great learning style she has. This will build her confidence and keep her moving forward toward her goals.

Please let me know if you have more questions.

Reply from Victoria:

Hi Barbara,
Your daughter's "inability" to focus could be looked at as an ability to focus very well - when the subject is something that is interesting to her. This ability is one of the primary characteristics of what the schools call a "gifted and talented" student. In Learning Style terms, your daughter probably has a Thinking/Creating or Inventing learning Disposition.

The experience you had watching the Revolutionary War video with her is a classic example of how the mind of this kind of learner works. Something in the video sparked her question about what the people then would think of our weapons now.

This is where her interest in the subject is, and from a learning style perspective, I would encourage you to stop the video and have that discussion with your daughter. Real learning only takes place because we have a question that we want to have answered. If we override our children's questions because there is something that we think is more important going on, it is guaranteed that they will stop asking questions and stop sharing their curiosity with us.

The unexplored and undeveloped truth about learning is that the more we can link activities to our children's questions and interests, the more they will enjoy and remember what they studying.

I hope that this is helpful to you. Please let me know if you want more information.

Best wishes,
Victoria

Math facts
Posted By: Anna M

My eldest ds (12) is definitely a creative/inventive personality. He loves to read and come up with his own codes and airplane designs. He is interested in architecture. Problem... he cannot memorize his times facts. He can tell you every detail from a book he's read, but not what 9 times 8 is. I would love ideas on how to help him learn his facts. He dreads long division, because it takes him so long, with out that mastery; of the facts. He knows HOW to do lots of math, but is frustrated because it takes him so long.

Reply from Victoria:

Often people who have a Thinking/Creating or Inventing learning Disposition learn best through a visual-picture modality. This means that everything makes more sense through pictures, graphs, and charts.

Last summer I worked with a 12 year old boy who was having difficulty memorizing the multiplication tables using the Bornstein Memorizer picture flashcards. He was surprised at how interesting the facts were when presented in this form and how easy it was for him to remember them. You can obtain these cards from Mr. Bornstein at 800.468.2058.

Since I don't know all aspects of your child's learning style, I can only make guesses, of course.

One thing that is helpful for all learning styles is set the stage for learning the facts. Find out which facts are known quickly and which are not. It is sometimes surprising to find out that there are just a dozen or so facts that are slowing your child down. Before launching into learning the troublesome facts, make sure that you give your child "lots" of credit for what he has learned. The number of facts he knows probably far exceeds the number he doesn't know. It is very important to accentuate the positive if you want your son to be enthusiastic (or even cooperative) about learning something that is difficult for him.

If your child is quite active or has difficulty sitting still for long periods of time, he might be a Whole Body Learner and enjoy the following activity: Place flash cards (the old fashioned kind - 6 X 8 = 48,etc.) on the floor. Bounce a ball on the card while saying the equation. You could also have him bounce on a mini-trampoline and recite the facts.

For students who are auditory-listening learners, there are some great audio tapes available that turn the multiplication tables into songs-the kind of songs that you keep singing over and over to yourself long after the tape is finished.

These are only a few ideas. With more information about specific aspects of your child's learning style, I could give you more suggestions.

Best wishes,
Victoria

Visual learner and phonics
Posted By: Jill

I posted earlier with a child that is visual, I did more research in your book tonight. I have a question concerning the visual learning curriculum ideas. You suggest Ultimate phonics and Phonics Tutor and the Wilson reading program and AVKO. Are there any other programs that have come out since the publication of the book that you would recommend. Frontline is what I was wondering about. www.frontlinephonics.com

Do you have any experience with Frontline. Please comment on any other programs you might know about.

Thanks

Reply from Mariaemma:

The Frontline Phonics program looks fun and interesting. I do not have first hand experience with it, but I have heard of it and from what I've seen on their Web site, it looks like they do a good job presenting phonics in a sequential manner (most phonics programs don't, by the way.) Two other programs we recommend for beginning reading are Sing Spell Read & Write and Sonday Reading System. Any of these programs would probably be fine. Again, remember that most 5 year olds are not ready for formal reading instruction, but if you are willing to "play" with the materials, have fun together while introducing sounds, and not have any specific expectation, your daughter will have a positive experience connected with reading. Please don't judge her progress based on testimonials about 4 year olds who learned to read easily with such and such a program. Maybe your daughter will and maybe she won't. The important thing is to respect her learning timetable.

Writing...
Posted By: Susie in MS

Hi there!

We have our history/literature class together, one 6th grader and two 9th graders. We use Beautiful Feet, which we think is wonderful but...my 6th grader just can't seem to get words on paper. For Beautiful Feet you read a book and then write a short report on it. After reading the book we all discuss what it was about (in good detail, I might add). I don't expect my youngest to be near the same level as the older two...but he is terrible! He draws a total blank. He stares a the paper for the longest time before he comes up with one or two sentences. I'm talking about an hour and a half. :o( By this point my 9th graders have come up with some good "stuff", so I have them read it in order to give Joshua some ideas...to no avail! I just don't get it, what am I doing wrong??? The book has been read (I am constantly making sure that he is paying attention), it has been discussed, and two rough drafts have been read. He is still blank. Please help.

Thanks for your time.

Susie

Reply from Mariaemma:

Hi, Susie, I understand your frustration! I have a workshop called What Do You Mean You Don't Get It?! It's hard to understand why someone can't do something when we understand how to do it. If your son takes the Learning Style Profile, chances are he will come out as a Visual-Picture Learner and/or one of the Tactile Kinesthetic types (hands-on, whole body, sketching), but NOT Visual Print or Tactile Writing! Also, he might have a Thinking Creating or Inventing Disposition, or perhaps Performing. What this all means is that he needs other techniques to get him to tap into writing mode. If he likes to draw, one of the techniques is to have him draw about the book - in other words, a picture report. A picture is worth a thousand words, right? Picture reports are often very insightful and creative. Another technique is to use Information Mapping - a brainstorming approach that makes it very easy to then convert into sentences. Let me know if you are interested in finding out more about these techniques. I do have a book called What To Do When They Don't Get It, which teaches how to teach mapping.

It is important to remember that, while either of these techniques is being introduced, your son should not be asked to do book reports in the "normal way." In other words, he needs time to really get to know these techniques - to discover his own processing skills, as it were. Later, it will be easy to link directly to the written format. For some kids it's several weeks, for others it's several months. But if you use these techniques you can rest assured that he will be on the right track for writing.

Let me know if you want to talk more about this.

Reply from Susie:

I'm very interested in learning more about all of this. I haven't heard of most of the learning styles that you have mentioned. Where can I find the Learning Style Profile? I would like to have my son do this. Thanks much!

Susie

Reply from Mariaemma:

Our Learning Style Profile is available in our book, Discover Your Child's Learning Style. You can order it through Homeschool Christian's Amazon / Barnes & Noble. We also have our profile available online, if you'd prefer to have automatic scoring and recommendations. You can save $5 by ordering with Homeschool Christian's affiliate link. We also do Learning-Success(™) Coach training in Ventura for parents and individual training over the phone. I think your son would do great with mapping or drawing or both!

To Everyone...
Posted By: Mariaemma

Just wanted everyone to know that we send out a free, monthly e-mail newsletter called Coaching for Learning-Success(™). It includes teaching tips, resources for different learning styles and announcements about upcoming events. If you'd like to subscribe, just send an e-mail to info@learningsuccesscoach.com and say subscribe!

Thank you Mariaemma and Victoria for joining us this week and sharing great tips with us!
Posted By: Mary Leggewie

We really appreciated you joining us this week. May you have great success with your book. I'm sure you'll be touching many families in a positive way.

Thank you again,

Mary
Homeschool Christian.com

Reply from Victoria:

Dear Mary,

Thanks so much for this great opportunity to talk with people about specific learning concerns. That's where this work becomes most fun and interesting.

Best wishes to you and your wonderful work,

Victoria

Reply from Mariaemma:

It was our pleasure. Thank you so much for inviting us. We'd love to come back sometime!

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